Hello, and welcome to Volume 10 of Ask Elm! I am getting such a high volume of questions that I simply cannot answer every question publicly. I am making an effort to answer every question via e-mail and featuring the most frequently asked questions here. If you have a question click here to ask it.
I am going to dedicate this entry to two of the hottest topics in the world of pottermore: whether ThornPatronus19 is cheating, and how are some people showing up in chapters past chapter 4 in Chamber of Secrets. These answers below the cut.
“Why do you charge me ? I don’t use a bot. Really? Because i’m the first point user? I NEVER THROW A SPELL WITH POTENCY OVER 145, that’s a lie. No one can see it, because it never happened.
I don’t do duels at night, and i’m not dueling all day. At the beginning of this house cup i do duels a lot, yes, but only 1 day!! And it didn’t a bot, if you know, i’m a human and i need time for hygiene, eat, sleep, have a social life…”
That’s right, this question comes from ThornPatronus himself. Now, many of you have asked me about Thorn, who’s points were nearly as high as SnitchSpirit168′s (before deduction) and were a great deal higher than anyone on all four leaderboards. So I know that there has been suspicion looming about this for a while. Now, first thing I should say is that Thorn’s native language is Spanish as opposed to English so that is why the grammar in this question is not perfect. That is also the reason why they have confused something I said about a certain other user (*cough* PhoenixPurple202 *cough*) who has been tossing out duels with a potency ABOVE the max score of 145. I have never said that ThornPatronus19 casted spells above 145. I HAVE however stated my suspicion that ThornPatronus19 has utilized a bot to earn the majority of their points on Pottermore.
To answer this, I feel I need to validate why exactly I believe Thorn has used a bot. Now we (the Bot Busters) hold our data at a fairly high level of secrecy, so I am not going to show you our complete data, as it contains the names of other Bot Busters who have not consented to being publicly tagged on the blog. Instead I am going to pull out some numbers that you all will probably find very interesting, and show you a couple graphs made from data we have collected.
We will be looking at a 24 hour span of time starting on July 19th and ending on July 20th. During this time ThornPatronus19 earned points at an average of 481.5 points an hour THE ENTIRE TIME. This data was collected by 9 other users and myself, I did not collect this alone. Times are in ThornPatronus’s timezone.
| Date | Time | Thorn’s Total |
| 7/19/2012 | 10:08 PM | 92217 |
| 7/19/2012 | 11:11 PM | 92692 |
| 7/20/2012 | 12:14 AM | 93307 |
| 7/20/2012 | 1:55 AM | 94217 |
| 7/20/2012 | 10:02 AM | 98317 |
| 7/20/2012 | 11:23 AM | 98957 |
| 7/20/2012 | 12:20 PM | 99362 |
| 7/20/2012 | 1:07 PM | 99767 |
| 7/20/2012 | 2:09 PM | 100292 |
| 7/20/2012 | 3:02 PM | 100737 |
| 7/20/2012 | 4:02 PM | 101192 |
| 7/20/2012 | 5:00 PM | 101767 |
| 7/20/2012 | 6:03 PM | 102282 |
| 7/20/2012 | 7:00 PM | 102757 |
| 7/20/2012 | 8:17 PM | 103132 |
| 7/20/2012 | 9:43 PM | 103587 |
| 7/20/2012 | 10:09 PM | 103772 |
| Total for 24 hours: | 11555 |
Following is a visual of the same 24 hour timeframe, you see there are actually many more data points than I have shown above.
And this is just one example, we have others such as the 20 span just a day before the one we just discussed:
So in a 48 hour span of time ThornPatronus19 spent 44 of them online and earning points at this constant rate.
This is not human. Humans get tired and start to mess up duels causing a decline in their point earning. Humans take bathroom breaks, get phone calls, get distracted. I should also state that during this time he seems to have had PLENTY of time to run a website, as his website address was included in the Ask Elm e-mail I received (click his name in the question above to visit it). I can tell you as someone who runs THIS website that doing so is time consuming and does NOT allow for me to earn nearly 500 points an hour for an extended period of time.
Some of you might have seen my conversation with ThornPatronus19 on Twitter the other day. He found me, as SnitchSpirit168 did, because of a tweet I had made about him. In that conversation, I pointed out that I had data such as what I presented to you all above, to which he responded with the following (click on images to go to actual tweet):
Here Thorn claims that perhaps another person is dueling on his account as well, helping him earn points. Even if I believed that was the case (which by the behavior shown above I DO NOT believe it is) it is still a clear violation of the Terms & Conditions of Pottermore. Namely the following:
“3.6 [...] You may not transfer your own Account to another person (even your child), or allow another person (even your child) to access, your own Account [...]“
“3.10 Your Pottermore …Account and Pottermore Shop Account are for your personal use only. Please do not share your Account details with any other person, as you will be held responsible for all activities that occur under your password or Account(s) with or without your knowledge. By creating any type of Account on Pottermore, you confirm that you will treat your login details as confidential. [...]“
But lets say we pretend Thorn IS allowing another person to split duels between, that would mean in 48 hours they each spent 22 hours dueling at a rate of nearly 500 points an hour with no breaks. Is that believable to you all? Because I’m having a problem swallowing that notion. I have talked to many very seasoned duelers who DO pull down a lot of points in a day, and none of them have ever claimed to be able to pull off such a rate for an extended period of time. Also, if they COULD it violates one of the more humorous terms in Pottermore’s Terms and Conditions:
“7.5 We hope you enjoy the Games we provide on Pottermore. However, please ensure that you take regular breaks from playing these games and from using your computer generally. If you experience any discomfort, symptoms or any other adverse physical effects during or after your use of Pottermore, including the Games, please cease using Pottermore immediately and seek professional medical advice.”
So ThornPatronus19, you ask why I charge you with being a bot, there is why. I don’t point fingers of accusation without doing my research and have been fortunate enough to meet others willing to help collect this type of information. What do you all, as readers, take from this information? Do you agree or disagree that the data above shows that something is amiss with ThornPatronus19′s point earn? I would really love to hear what you think.
Also, if any of you really ARE dueling 44 out of 48 hours I suggest you “seek professional medical advice” as Pottermore suggests in Term 7.5. 
“How are you on chapters like 7 and 8 of CoS while others are only on the chapters that have came out(chapters 1-4)????”
“You’re my friend on pottermore, and I noticed it looked like you were already on chapter 8 of COS. How??”
“I have a friend that on my gateway comes out as though he/she is on the 5th chapter of Chamber of Secrets. Is it just a computer error or does that happened to all of us that have finished the 4th chapter?”
“Some of my friends are in chapter 5 of CoS and I can’t work out how they are there. Do you know how they could be?”
There is a GLITCH that allows you to trip through chapters past chapter 4 in the Chamber of Secrets by altering existing links on Pottermore. First, look at the anatamy of a link on pottermore: http://www.pottermore.com/en/book2/chapter4/moment1
This is a link for the first moment of chapter 4. If you were to change that 4 to a 5 you would get: http://www.pottermore.com/en/book2/chapter5/moment1
If you click that second link it will take you to the first moment of the fifth chapter. Nothing loads in the moment, but you will appear in that chapter on your friends timelines.
You can go even deeper in the book but you have to hit the chapter END and the FIRST MOMENT of each chapter to keep going. In other words you have to hit chapter5/end then chapter6/moment1 then chapter6/end. If you have the patience to do so you can get all the way to the end of the book doing so. You can comment at the end of the chapters. And *whispers* Nick’s Death Day party in Chapter 8 actually loads. No items, or sounds. But the visuals are there.
I really look forward to seeing comments on this one, I am actively going through questions for Ask Elm (Vol 11) I didn’t know this one would end up focusing on only two things until I started writing it. Remember if you have a question to ask CLICK HERE.
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I really do not get why people don’t like bots. I am one of those people that make bots to get more points for my house. Just think of it: Even though people are winning points for their house, many other people are winning points for your house too.
Wow really? I think so many people have listed so many reasons why we don’t like or want to fuel bots that I don’t even feel like I should repeat them here. Short answer: we want to duel people not your computer program.
Are you serious? What kind of message are you sending to the little kids who flock to this site? That cheating is ok? This is why I have ignored the house cup entirely, its become about who can out bot/program who. If it weren’t for the other things like the info and learning spell names and stuff then I would left pottermore long ago. Every respectable pottermore community I have been to condones the use of bots and so do I.
I just tried the bug. I can get to Chapter 5 Moment 1, but not Chapter 5 end.
I had to work through every moment. I am now on Chapter8 Moment1 with Nick’s Deathday party, but there’s only a loading circle.
have u got any idea as to when the subsequent chapters of COS open
i think that people using bots on pottermore to get house points is like a certain house getting more points because their head of house shows favoritism in his or her class and gives their house more points. in both cases, house points are being awarded that probably are not deserved.
The thing that I am disturbed about is that SnitchSpirit168 was a Hufflepuff, and Hufflepuffs are supposed to be honest and loyal. What SnitchSpirit168 did show that they are not fit to be in Hufflepuff, because using a bot was not very honest, even if there is nothing against it in Pottermore rulebooks.
Although, it does make sense that a Hufflepuff would FIND a way to score more points ;P
As a Hufflepuff, I was psyched when I logged on after a few weeks to see that we had (finally!) taken third place. But I’m disappointed to hear that our success may be due to bots. We might be second in member numbers and have high individual scorers but the rest of Hufflepuff isn’t doing a lot.
Anyway, I hope this problem gets sorted out so we can really, actually duel. I’m sad to see this is going on and I feel like some of the standings might change if the bots were eliminated. Good for you guys to try and persuade these people to stop.
I have to say it is sad to see people cheating. Its a game and a place for additional hp info and nothing more. If they finding dueling boring and repetitive then try potions. They require concentration, many ingredients regenerate and you can go do something while your potion brews. Or simply move to a game they do enjoy.
Just wanted to post this here at the top of this particular comment section for those of you who still seem to believe that Pottermore (staff) views bots as okay. When asked directly if there was anything in the terms that prevented the use of a bot one user (not me) received this as a reply:
“”Dear [name retracted],
Thank you for your feedback.
We have not found anything specifically referring to the use of such software in the Terms and Conditions either. However, we can still act on the basis of improper use of the game.
Kind regards,
The Pottermore team”
Another user believes that the following in Terms & Conditions could apply:
“7.2
You may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reduce the Game to human perceivable form. You may not rent, lease or sub-license any Games. You may not create derivative works of the Games and you may not export the Games in violation of any law, rule or regulation. We reserve all rights in the Games not specifically granted to you under these Terms”
There are also provisions in the terms stating that any behavior that “infringes” upon others enjoyment of the site is strictly prohibited.
So all of this combined leads me to continue believing what I have believed all along: Using a bot to duel for you is CHEATING.
I’m not going to keep arguing in circles about this. I don’t care about semantics and gray areas or how many people may or may not agree with me. This is not a democracy where if you get people to agree it is true. Pottermore (AS IN THE STAFF NOT THE USERS) considers the use of bot programs to be “improper use of the game” and will act upon that basis as necessary.
‘Nuff said.
hey elm,
I think that RiverSpell156, the top person in gryffindor (and overall) might be cheating. I think this because I live in Australia, but I come from the united states, so we always have a computer clock set to alaska time (where I come from). When I went on pottermore, I noticed that RS was online, and he lives in the united states- when i got my dad to check the different times in the US, we realised that it was the middle of the night in every single state, and I somehow doubt that he would really be up and 1-4:45 in the morning (the general times that we discovered in the US currently). He also has an insane amount of points, as I said earlier. I may be wrong, but it does seem suspicious. What do I do if I suspect a cheater, such as RS?
PS, I love your blog!!!!.
Ok Elm, you have me convinced. Its a hard pill to swallow because I have to admit I feel that Ravenclaw is getting a really unfair shake lately but I hate cheating so much I just want this dealt with so we can be rid of another cheater. I love Harry Potter and it surprised me how much it genuinely hurts to see people cheat. Its like someone is taking advantage of a dear friend.
I really hope that in future Pottermore does something to fix the complete imbalance created by population issues on Pottermore. From Beta Ravenclaw was at the top with Slytherin and then after opening Gryff swooped in. And now Puff has taken third, please note though that we are tracking MULTIPLE possible bots in Hufflepuff that could account for this, but since we have started taking action against them many botters have become cautious and are not running their bots like they were before making them difficult to catch. As Moody would suggest we at Bot Busters are practicing CONSTANT VIGILANCE.
I agree with Elm, “cheating” doesn’t require a direct violation of the PM terms and conditions. As stated by PM, SS and others using bots were “gaining house points unfairly.” Acting unfairly to gain an advantage is the very definition of cheating. Whether or not using a bot violates the actual rules is not really relevant.
The dueling game instructs you to “us[e] your mouse or keyboard” to “click or press” the letters of the spell. Automating these inputs using software circumvents the intention of the game and is quite obviously unfair to those who wish to actually play the game as it was intended, human foibles (and need to sleep, eat, and use the bathroom ) and all.
That said, I’d consider SS more of a hacker than a cheater (if we’re going to argue semantics ). Using a bot to automate the game is a fairly obvious solution to a repetitive task and SS was hardly the only person to set up a dueling bot. SS wouldn’t have notified PM directly or publicly confessed on twitter if racking up house points was all he cared about. Instead he brought the issue into the light of day and into the court of public opinion.
Thank you, Dawn. I think in time Pottermore will devote the needed resources to helping abate this problem. We at Bot Busters continue to do what we can to bring cheaters and their methods to the attentions of Pottermore. From what we know Pottermore is using the point earning patterns of one Snitch Spirit to learn how to screen for possible bot activity and take actions to prevent this from continuing. Here’s hoping they manage it soon.
ElmBlade, you are brilliant and I am happy that you are a fellow Slytherin.
The defense that if something is not explicitly banned in the rules, it therefore must be allowed is an example of an unethical self-serving rationalization.
The dueling is set up as one ‘wizard duelist’ against another. There is no feature with dueling that is a computer solitaire game. (Potion making is the computer solitaire game on Pottermore.) Even when a duel result is not immediately returned, it is assumed that another living breathing human will answer the challenge. I stopped dueling against Hufflepuffs because I wanted the chance involved with the duel. That no matter the points or experience of the opponent, there was a chance of momentary distraction or fingers slipping or whatever that would allow me to best my opponent.
The Bot-people know they are cheating when they seek out an outside computer program to modify the performance of the game. I see no difference between bots and changing your duel score, they both introduce an outside computer element to change the intended results of the game as set out by the creators of the game.
Since we are in the midst of the Olympics, I will use the games as an example. Spring technology incorporated into running shoes is banned from competitions, doping is banned. When a new technology is introduced into a competition, the community will evaluate it to determine as a community whether is represents an unfair advantage or is harmful to the individual. The use of bots for dueling is harmful because it decreases the morale of the competition, and discourages individual participation.
I want to duel. I like dueling, I like the satisfaction of getting that perfect score. I also enjoy when my competition answers a challenge with a perfect score. I wish there was a way to send a message of “Well done.” But I also want my house to win the cup. If the only way to gain points for my house and not lose points to the competition is to duel with a bot achieving 145 each duel; then I will delete my account and never play again. There are other computer solitaire games that are more intellectually stimulating than those same letters over and over again.
Thank you
tracy
Personally, I don’t see what’s wrong with people using bots to achieve scores. First of all, anyone can do it, so it’s not really cheating. It’s not like only specific people can make bots, its just that there are people that aren’t willing to make them. Second, It can’t be easy to make bots, so I think that it is fair for people to try to make a usable bot. They took the time to make the bot, so they should get credit for the points the bot receives. Finally, it doesn’t say anywhere in the terms and conditions (from what I know of) that no one can use bots. No where in the terms and conditions does it say that someone HAS to be behind their computer playing the duels or brewing the potions. I think that these “cheaters” are really just people that found a loophole in the terms and conditions, so therefore, they shouldn’t be punished.
If they condoned the use of bots they would not have placed human verification on the game itself. And they certainly wouldn’t have deducted half of Snitch Spirit’s points when they discovered he was using one.
Also, the statement that “everyone” could build a bot is simply not true. Pottermore is designed for all ages an no 9 year old is going to know how to program a bot to duel for them.
Finally, if a persons score only affected their own personal rank in game perhaps it would matter less. But since Pottermore is also essentially a team sport having more bots in one house than another would greatly skew the standings for the house cup.
I appreciate you being able to communicate your views on this in a calm and thought out manner. But I disagree completely. I don’t want to play a game that is essentially who can build the better bot to play for them.
ElmBlade43,
I understand your disagreement. Everyone is probably asking, “Why would the creators of Pottermore place human verification on the game if they didn’t care about bots?” I will explain one theory, of many, that can answer this question. Let’s think back to Snitch Spirit. Do you think that he/she would’ve been punished if no one complained about Snitch Spirits’ point increase? I highly doubt that the creators of Pottermore would’ve punished Snitch Spirit. What do you think Pottermore fans would do if they complained to the creators of Pottermore, but the creators of Pottermore didn’t punish him/her? I wouldn’t be surprised if Pottermore fans stopped going on the site. And the creators of Pottermore wouldn’t want that, now would they? Wouldn’t it make sense for the creators of Pottermore to try to please the upset group of potter fans by taking away half of Snitch Spirit’s points? I think that if the creators of Pottermore were truely upset with Snitch Spirit, they would take away all of his/her points, or ban him/her from the site.
Secondly, everyone could build a bot. You shouldn’t underestimate nine year olds. A lot of them are actually very smart. Also, if you are nine years old, you should know that you will be dueling and competing against people that are older than you. Even if what you said is true, and no 9 year old is going to know how to program a bot, then no nine year old would be able to make the more complex potions, or duel better on the harder spells. This is then expected: no one is equal, so therefore the site can’t be 100% fair.
I respectfully disagree with your third paragraph. Pottermore is a team competition, but it’s not like the houses are evenly distributed. As we all know, Ravenclaw has a significantly smaller amount of people in their house compared to any of the other houses. Even if people weren’t using bots, the competition wouldn’t be fair to every house.
In reply to Patronus:
That’s a good point. Thank you for having the courage to express an unpopular opinion. I think a lot of people may think this but don’t want to say it. I wouldn’t have wrote this comment if it weren’t for him/her. A lot of these examples (in Elm’s post) rely on terms and conditions but there isn’t anything about bots, so it’s just a “moral” issue just like rematching newbies. So I agree with Patronus saying that strictly speaking it’s isn’t cheating; it’s just a loophole (see more elaboration in response to Elm below). I wouldn’t want to immediately label it as cheating; I’d prefer the objective and specific term “botting”.
In reply to Elm:
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that PM condones the use of bots, but I think what Patronus is trying to say (he/she will need to confirm of course) is that botters have simply found a loophole in the terms and conditions. It’s not strictly cheating. It’s not like they are blatantly engaging in activities that go against the terms and conditions (having two people on an account). As for the captchas and SS, I think that was a large part pressure from PM users. Just for the record for those who may be wondering, I don’t, never have, and never will bot, mainly because I don’t know how to.
For example, many popular and reputable websites (Gryffinroar and your blog) have item locations, galleon locations, etc. I think that’s similar in concept to botting, but much more widespread. There isn’t anything in the terms and conditions that says you can’t look up the answers online. This information could be used to “cheat” the system by not even bothering to look for the items, but would you call that cheating? Some people may spend hours looking for an object while others look it up online. Both situations are debatable.
I also agree with Patronus on the statement that anyone can build a bot. The way I look at it, anyone *can*, but it’s just not likely a nine-year-old would know how to. Even if a younger user had trouble figuring out how to bot, they could get help from an older sibling, adult, or random person on the internet.
I do agree that the botting does slightly disrupt the House Cup, but the cup is even greatly skewered by the fact that some houses have many more members than others. And like you say in your post “Pottermore and Cheating”, most of the users in a house aren’t “cheating”.
So I partly agree with Patronus and partly with you.
I was reading your twitter, and I would hesitate to call a respectful comment from a reader “not so amazing” (unless of course you were referring to the reader’s response to your blog, because then it would be acceptable). I would also like to stress that what I *think* patronus was saying was that it is *possible* to bot. For example, it’s the difference between it being harder for some to do it and completely impossible to do it (say, people under a certain age are somehow unable to obtain the software to do it). Would I be surprised if a young user botted? Yes. But is it possible? Absolutely.
All opinions aside, I really like your blog. Keep up the great writing! Sorry if the grammar in this post isn’t good, but English isn’t my first language.
For clarification I meant “not so amazing” in the sense of no blogger is particularly uplifted by comments such as these compared to positive comments such as the one on my most recent blog entry.
Elm- Yeah, that’s what I thought you might have meant, but I wasn’t sure. I just saw your and Patronus’ new comments, and I agree with Patronus on many counts including that a factor in the SS point docking may have been pressure from the PM community. I also wrote many similar points in my comment.
Sorry for the double post, but in my previous post I didn’t see the new posts.
I feel bad commenting so much repeatedly and crowding up the top space, but I don’t have a twitter account. I still wanted to reply, though.
I don’t know about Patronus, but I wouldn’t classify my comment as pro-botting. I’d just like to offer a different viewpoint as everyone else seems to have. In response to your tweet, as I said I don’t bot, and ideally I wouldn’t want anyone else to, but I don’t think we should jump to label it as cheating just yet. You put it perfectly: “Perhaps it is as one describes it a question of ethics.”
Victoria,
That is exactly what I was trying to get across. Botters do follow the terms and conditions, so they cannot be immediately labeled as cheaters. But I do understand why some people would believe it as so: it can potentially be deemed as unfair or cheating. It is a “moral” issue, and that doesn’t immediately mean botting is cheating. In contrast, blatant rule breaking, such as having more than one account, could be considered cheating without debate.
Alright, I put a great deal of thought into my response, because it meritted it. And to answer I am first going to tell a story about a previous pottermore cheating scenario.
In the Fall of last year, during Beta, there was no dueling. The only game there was on site to earn points was Potions, which had even longer brewing times than they have now, making it hard to earn more than a few points a day. And yet, magically, there were people on the leader boards getting HUNDREDS of points a day. As it turned out, they were altering the time of their computer to get around the brew timer and brew more potions in a day than you could normally if you were actually waiting for them to brew.
Of course, the rest of the users started to get frustrated. Because those of us who WANTED TO HONESTLY EARN POINTS did not want to do this to earn points faster.
Those who were using this “advantageous glitch” to their advantage used every single one of the reasons that Patronus and Victoria above me have used. It’s not against the terms and if they wanted us to stop they would stop us were among the top reasons given. “Surely they would change how the game runs if they considered it cheating, so it must not be cheating!”
Well guess what, it may have taken MONTHS but they DID change the way the game worked. TWICE to get them to stop. The first time simply made it harder, you couldn’t just change your computer time. But people made programs that would STILL fool the game into thinking that more time had gone by. So finally Pottermore changed it AGAIN so that now if you even attempt to alter the time parameters of the game or on your computer while a potion is brewing not only will your cauldron explode but you will lose five points for your trouble.
So believe me, just because Pottermore is busy focusing on the release of Chamber of Secrets (which will probably include a dueling upgrade with things built in to stop botting) does not mean they do not consider it cheating. In EVERY reply email I have gotten back from my reports of bot users on site they have said something akin to the following which is directly taken from one such e-mail:
“We want you to know that gaining house points unfairly is taken very seriously. Although we can’t go in to detail on individual cases, please rest assured that warnings, suspensions and house point deductions are all actions we can and will enforce when necessary.”
So while I respect your point of view, I don’t agree and nor do I think Pottermore agrees.
And yes, you can tell me “they only say that because people are complaining” but quite frankly I don’t care WHY they say it. So long as they say it and find a way to enforce it. Which I believe they are working on and someday the bots will go the same way as the speed potion programs. Until then I will find and report every bot user that I can.
Good day to you both.
Elm,
I’m flattered to hear you consider my point of view worthy of thought. I agree with a lot of what you said. Maybe we are using two terms for the same thing, but I would prefer to describe botting as sly and underhanded instead of cheating because I would like to reserve that term for rule breaking. On that detail, let’s agree to disagree.
Something I would just like to restate because I feel it may have been missed is the point of Pottermore “guides” on the internet. I feel, although it is of a lesser severity, this is very similar in concept to botting. For this reason I never look up item locations online. Most guides are just trying to help people, though.
I also agree with what you said about Pottermore’s opinion on botting. In my opinion Pottermore does believe botting is underhanded and sly, so I think we’re saying similar things. All I was trying to say in my previous comments is that it’s not cheating in its strictest sense (in my opinion of course). Also in my opinion, some people may not consider botting cheating because I do believe it’s an ethical issue. Though I disagree with that opinion, it is debatable.
As for the potions story… Wow. I never did figure out how people gained points so quickly during Beta. I thought they were just brewing a LOT of potions or got on PM early. I feel pretty behind, now. Lol.
The one thing I sort of disagreed with/wanted to point out was the statement or implication that PM will be able to completely stop botting. I think some people making bots are very smart, and they’ll be able to figure out a workaround to almost anything PM will throw at them. Botting is something we cannot eradicate completely. I might be on to something… Or I might just have no idea what I’m talking about.
To end on a humorous note, I’ll reference this Liberty Mutual commercial I saw during the Olympics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB3oEHzakOw
Mostly unrelated, but I thought it was pretty funny.
I just can’t see bots and help guides being held on the same level. Guides for video games have been common place for years online and often can be purchased in published book form from a video game store alongside your game purchase. Yes one could say that it’s getting outside help playing the game but even if you look up how to do something you still HAVE TO DO IT. Programming a computer to play for you against other users who are unaware they are dueling a computer is a whole different can of worms.
Elm,
I am completely honest when I say that I never knew about the potions situation during Beta. I do understand what you mean: why should some people be able to get all those points while everyone else has to wait? But here’s the thing: they don’t have to wait. If people really believe that finding a way around the time is not an honest way to earn points, then they don’t have to do the same thing, but they shouldn’t complain about those who don’t agree. I doubt that those people that did go around the time did this because they wanted to get people angry or just to win. In fact, I think people saw it as a challenge: the creators of PM gave us a huge brewing time, so why shouldn’t we try to find our way around it? I think that the people of PM should credit those people who have found a way around the time issue, instead of looking down upon them. It’s quite creative, really. Wouldn’t you agree?
And even though the creators of PM did eventually override the time glitch, I don’t think that they were planning to do it at first. If the majority of the people on PM used the glitch, then there would’ve been a very good chance that the PM creators wouldn’t have looked at this as a first priority. Again, the creators of PM don’t want people to leave the site, and if a group of people were complaining, they are planning on doing what they have to to please them, even if it’s technically not against the terms and conditions. In the end, the PM creators have one goal: keep people on their site.
I also don’t think that people should be rioting against this because the creators of PM have MANY other issues. Most of those issues being way more important. For example, don’t you think that people in Italy should have the ability to be in Ravenclaw house. Because right now they can’t. Which is more important: stopping a few botters that will find their way around the system again, or making sure that people are happy with the house that they are supposed to be in?
Believe it or not, A LOT of people see my side of the story as well. So I don’t exactly think that you can assume that all of PM agrees with your side of the story. In fact, I highly doubt all of PM agrees with your side of the story. I’m on PM. I have an account. And I am one of many examples of people on the site that don’t agree with your point of view. So while I respect YOUR point of view, I can’t say the same for the rest of PM.
Elm,
As I said in my previous comment, no, bots and help guides are not on the same level, but they are the same in concept. They are used to gain an advantage over others by saving time and effort.
I am a little confused at your double standard. In your comment you said looking up how to do something is okay because you still have to do it. But if you write a program to play a game for you, don’t you still have to write the program? I think that’s what you mean, but correct me if I’m incorrect.
I’d just like to clarify that my saying this has nothing to do with your help section. I believe your help section is used mainly by people who honestly can’t find the items and is written with the intention of helping the aforementioned people.
I would also Iike to thank you for repeatedly replying to my posts.
Victoria
Yes you still have to write the program that tricks other people into dueling a computer. Let’s give them all an award for their programming genius shall we? I’ve lost my patience with this. Irony care it takes time to program. I don’t care. A 9 year old dueling for the first time expects a human on the other end. Whether it took time to program or not it is still wrong.
When I say Pottermore agrees with me I am not speaking about it’s users.
And as with all issues there will be people on both sides. I can assure you based on my own interactions that you and Victoria here are very much in the minority. Also, never once have I ever claimed that everyone would or should agree with me. As human beings the idea of having everyone agree with you is laughable. But you should not run around thinking because SOME of you think this that the MAJORITY of Pottemore users thing botting is okay because I can tell you with 100% certainty that the majority of Pottermore users believes it is wrong to use a bot. Calling it by whatever name they please (cheating, hacking, unfair point earn) the fact that SnitchSpirit’s points were taken as you have said due to the pressure of users is enough right there to tell me that though there are some of you with the questionable moral ethics to consider it okay, the rest of us recognize it for what it is: tricking people into dueling a computer for your own point glory needs. My views on it will never change. So you can cling to your sinking life raft of “I’m not alone, other people think so to!” if you would like and if it makes you feel better. But you won’t ever convince the majority of us.
I get what you are saying. Since we agree on a lot of things, let’s agree to disagree on the rest.
Sounds like a fabulous plan to me. Also, the last replies were send at like 4 am so I apologize for any residual sleepy crankiness that came through in them.
I wonder, these people who allegedly agree with you, do they, by chance, use bots?
Further, if there were so many of them as you say, it seems likely that they would not be afraid to voice their opinions. Yet yours remains the unpopular one. If a majority of users really thought the way you did, then you would find yourself not being such a minority, I’d think.
Further, in law there is this simple little test that is applied in certain situations- and it fits here quite nicely: if a reasonable person would consider the use of bots cheating, then it is cheating. I am sure you will find that the reasonable person does indeed consider this to be so.
It also seems exceedingly silly and potentially outrageous to comment on the time it takes to make a bot. It takes time to make a cheat note in an exam too. So what? If the question is whether or not the behaviour in question is explicitly forbidden by the rules, well: to an extend it is, but you are correct that it is not 100% explicit.
You will also find that, say, the use of cellphones was not explicitly forbidden in exam rules at a time, yet it was considered cheating. It would then later be explicitly added or assumed as self explanatory.
If the only thing on which your argument hinges is the lack of explicitness in the T&C of Pottermore, then your argument seems petty to me.
Thorn may be cheating, yes, but I’m pretty sure almost all of the top Hufflepuffs are cheating as well, whereas it does not seem like most of the other top Ravenclaws are using bots.
There does seem to be a higher than avg leader board on the Puff side. I can tell you we’ve investigated and it definitely is not ALL of them using bots. In fact right now we can only find one we suspect of using a bot.
Alright now we think its more like 2 or 3 using bots. Sad. I know.
I’m really disappointed about the Puff leaders using bots. I honestly think that the majority of Puff aren’t using them, and there’s been a lot of hate going around recently.
Even though I am a Ravenclaw, I think ThornPatronus19 is cheating. I would be really sad to see so many points go, though.
Elm, I am so happy you have addressed this cheating problem. Backstory time!!!! When I first heard of Pottermore, I probably had all the power and energy to move the world. You know why? Because I remembered my seven year old self, opening up the book and becoming part of it. It was magical. So I signed up for Pottermore, and from the second I was on, it was like being seven again (so what if I’m only eleven, they’re happy memories). I was moved. I became part of the Slytherin house and I was happy. Now because of my house, I had no idea cheating was going on at this high of a level untill someone posted how chaotic it was in the GH. I decided to check it out myself. I was heartbroken. So I did some reasearch and came across you. I read your posts and reported SS to Pottermore. They wrote me back saying how glad they were to hear I cared so much about Pottermore and they were going to do something. Once again, I was happy. I’m going to do the same for TP. So thank you, you guys are like family to me, a very wonderful family.
I also think that Thorn Patronus is cheating. I for myself can duel continuously and keep winning for a maximum of 200 points per hour. I don’t think that earning at least 300 points per hour is even possible. I’m glad that Pottermore did something with Snitch Spirit.
Very nicely done again, Elm!
I too don’t believe that anyone who is human can get that many points an hour continuously. My best has been about 500 points an hour, but that usually involved a LOT of concentration on just duelling, and even then I’d eventually just take a long break afterwards. The fact that they can get over 11000 points a day is also very inhuman, the most I could ever get in a day with a LOT of spare time was about 2000-3000 points, so I can’t imagine how it could be humanly possible to get that many points unless they were cheating somehow.
I’ve been mentally tracking some people’s points and their amount of time spent on PM for awhile now too (mostly Gryffindors because of the time I spent on the leader board before), only not as organized and precise, and usually it’s pretty obvious when I notice someone who can get points at a seemingly inhuman rate, and of course I noticed the inconsistency of TP for awhile now, even while the SS incident was going on. They had a notable gap between the rest of the house leaders, but not as much as SS, so I thought that they could just be a legit user with a bit more time than others. But of course since then, they have gained a considerable amount of points… And I just don’t think it’s possible to gain over 100,000 points in less than a month like TP did (it took many legit users months before they could get that amount in the last cup).
Of course there are many others I do suspect of cheating, but sometimes it’s just really hard to tell if they’re cheating for sure, and I’d feel terrible if I accused someone of cheating when they weren’t.
Elm Hello! Your posts very good congratulations.
The understand very little English so I had to help me with a translator to read your articles.
The day I decided to enter the ranking of my house, I began to duel after duel, ask my housemates and earn points more quickly. My record was 700 duels in 1 hour. You need to take a big break and go again. When he was 20 does not reach the site take breaks, I saw circles and more, to achieve my goal.
I’ve found in duels, winning, losing or tying, which make many duels, we realize that we are the same ones who make constant duels, the power of our duels between 140 and 145. Lately I have found ranking users with lower power duels 140, it passes through the tiredness or start losing the pace of duels.
I do not think that is human to average 400 points in 1 hour, over a long period of time.
I wonder how do to get over 4000 without the help of potions with t (I hope you understand this, I can not put it this way).
Greetings!
Flu Dawn! I have dueled you before I believe, and if I recall you are quite the force to be reckon with.
I too have hours where I can pull down 600 points in an hour. But I am patchy so this hour will often be followed by an hour where I get only 200 points.
To add insult to injury, PhoenixPurple202 is not only cheating, they are also plagiarizing! The sole piece of artwork on their profile, an adorable Harry Potter chibi, does not belong to them! The real artist, known as Aurore Black Cat, is a professional illustrator from France and you can just make out her signature in the image to Harry’s right. You can find the original drawing here: http://auroreblackcat.deviantart.com/gallery/26741501#/dg0l68
I have informed the artist and she has confirmed the plagiarism, so hopefully this can be straightened out with minimal hassle to her. It’s unfortunate that Pottermore doesn’t have an option for non-copyright holders to report a potential infringement so that Pottermore staff can look into it, but at the moment policy dictates copyright holders have to fill out a form for investigation and removal.
I only bring all this up so that the true artist can receive the proper credit. I also suggest checking out the rest of her adorable Potter chibi series including Ron, Hermione, Draco, and Snape! Here’s a link to her fanart page if interested: http://auroreblackcat.deviantart.com/gallery/26741501
Thank you Elm!
Yeah… sadly though, they’re not the only one that has posted a piece of art that isn’t their own. Most of the artwork submitted on Pottermore doesn’t actually belong to the users that post it. I’ve seen one of my favourite artists, who actually has a Pottermore account, post their own art on Pottermore, only to have it reported and taken down, while other people who also posted their exact same art still have it up, when they don’t even own it! Not only that though, but one of the stolen artworks was featured on the PM Insider site, credited with an account that does not belong to the artist.
I agree with you completely that Pottermore should make an option for other users to report stolen artwork.
This is just sad. I’m not much of an artist but I too have had drawings reported and removed for no reason. They weren’t the best drawings but they were mine. And there was nothing wrong with them. Meanwhile you report for a real reason and it will get put back up.
Yeah, I’ve seen lots of plagiarism on PM too. Like this image: http://mary-dreams.deviantart.com/gallery/456524?offset=24#/ds9zof
I’ve seen it on PM tons of times. Yeah. That’s why I dislike posting work online.
Thank you so much, Lauren and the Bot Busters! I’ve e-mailed this link to Pottermore in the hopes that they take a deluge of griping as well as they did that about SS’s cheating.
Elm,
I know you are putting in a gazillion hours of your time already in the name of Pottermore but if I could choose the headmaster of Hogwarts, you would be it.
Hey, I’m not sure if this has happened before, but there seems to be another glitch on Pottermore. I was online, dueling again after months, and the house leaderboards completely reset to 0. No house points, no leaderboards, nothing. Peoples comments were repeating in the common room. Did anyone else see this? It’s still like that on my computer at the moment.
You mean this: http://i.imgur.com/diN74.png
It was creepy, then it went back to normal.
Elm,
You bring great honor to your house. I am so glad that you are fighting for us all against the bots. Your research backs you up and I believe as you do that you have found another bot wielding cheater. I personally think the penalties should be more severe but as long as the cheating stops then I will be happy. Please keep up great work you do on your blog!
I just did the glitch and saw the deathday artwork! Looks awesome! I was wondering for so long how you were on chapter 8 elm lol. I can’t wait for the next chapters to actually open.
I believe that you arte COMPLETELY right about Thorn Patronus’s cheating! Spending that long online is physically and mentally unhealthy! There is no way that he could get away with saying he has someone else helping earn him points! That person would have spoken up to protect him by now… The gumption he has to cheat and LIE is incredible! Then again, Snitch Spirit had a lot of gumption to just ADMIT that he cheated…I mean, HOW LOW CAN YOU GET TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS! ALL CHEATERS ARE CONSIDERED ‘POTTERMORE’S PROWLING AND PURLOINING PARIAHS’ IN MY MIND… (In other words, it means that I am calling them sneaky people who steal… Don’t you love the alliteration?)
Well, I think your chart pretty much says it all. I could *almost* believe it possible, with two people working around the clock in three or four hour shifts, but that would be indicative of a level of obsession with Pottermore nearly too disturbing to contemplate.
Also, LOL at “Bot Busters”. I can’t be the only one with ‘If there’s somethin’ strange in Pottermore, who ya gonna call?’ going round in my head now. Heh.
Hi! I don’t know if TP is cheating. I obviously hope he/she isn’t, because it would be a great shame for all Ravenclaw House. I really can’t see why someone would want to cheat… I mean, it’s a game after all. But I agree: people who cheat have to pay for it.
I am actually really angry at Pottermore. Another Ravenclaw told us she got a mail from Pottermore saying that they are going to find out if people in our House are cheating and eventually BAN the cheaters. Elm, you already know what bothers me: if you do the Sorting in Italian you won’t get Ravenclaw. We have this bug SINCE APRIL and they just won’t do anything to fix it. We wrote them billions of e-mails and they just keep repeating that they already know about this and they are working on it, or that we should look on the Insider, or other ridiculous excuses. In the comments after every chapter we are forced to warn new PM users to do the Sorting in English, otherwise they will have a fake Sorting between only three Houses… hoping that someone will read them, because Pottermore isn’t going to write an official warning about it, as we asked.
So, a) they refuse to fix the bug that is helping us lose (because after SS168′s points were taken away it’s clear that the total score is just a sum of the users’ points, and we lost a lot of members to the other Houses because of that bug); b) they had the certainty that ALL of SS168′s points were made using a bot and they took away only a half of them; c) but now they say that they will BAN the Ravenclaws cheaters, not only take away half of their points; d) they say that they will look into our points and that that’s why we are experiencing some issues, such as thousands of points vanishing and then reappearing and then vanishing again.
Sorry for the rant, but I am really sick of this. I’m sorry I can’t forward to you the e-mail I talked about, but I haven’t received it yet.
If you do get a copy of that e-mail I would love to see it. The Ravenclaw sorting glitch is the most baffling problem I’ve ever seen on Pottermore. I simply can’t understand how they h e let these things (cheating, long term glitches, etc) to go on as long as they have. I was giving them time with sorting glitch since the Community Manager had been informed. But I no longer believe it is a priority for them. I think CoS is their main/only focus.
Yes, it seems they always have something better to do.
That there even has to be a post like this makes me sad. And then my sadness bubbles over into anger. “Why?” “It’s just a game” some might say.
I think most of us that have read Harry Potter and those that grew up reading Harry Potter … the story is much more than just a story. It’s a story that has touched our hearts. My entrance into Harry Potter was one of curiosity … I had heard different reactions to the book and I wanted to know myself … and I got hooked.
A lot has happened to me physically and emotionally since I read the books the first time and there are parts of it that speak deeply to me … dealing with loss, dealing with death, dealing with fear. The story has become a part of my life. Pottermore is a fun addition to the story. Those that would mock it by cheating and then lying and being abusive about it … it just hurts. It’s an insult to the book, it’s an insult to those of us who love it and it is an insult to J.K. Rowling herself.
Those of us who enjoy the escape that Pottermore brings … those that have dueled hard and honestly like Asphodel above and many others … cheating is an insult to them as well. Those who cheat … their actions affect more than just them. And it hurts. And it makes me sad.
Please just stop.
The fact that Pottermore is more than just a game is what encourages these people to cheat in the first place. If it were just another Harry Potter app, would anyone have really bothered? Not one bit. The fact that JKR is behind Pottermore is what eggs these cheats to play dirty even more. Sadists.
There can also be other motivations. As Elm Blade pointed out in the article, ThornPatronus19 runs a website which has a forum, Pottermore guides and news, and, more importantly, people. Unlike SnitchSpirit168, who only became “famous” in the Pottermore community when he began to cheat, ThornPatronus19 has a circle of people around him, who look to him for answers to their Pottermore questions…. and who can admire his recent “achievement”.
SnitchSpirit168 cheated because he could, but ThornPatronus19 is cheating and lying about it to have a higher status in his community. Both are wrong, but I feel the latter is more pathetic.
Pretty clear to me. I hope Pottermore takes action again. I think the most that I have scored is 1000 house points in two hours. After that I was sick of the whole PPTTFFCCTTLLSS and wanted to toss my lap through the window. I simply can\’t imagine someone going more than 4 hours at that rate.
And the most I have made in one day is probably around 3000.
I would looove to see the graphs of my house points earnings
I personally don’t duel a lot -_-’
But when I’m waiting for my potions to load I’ll pull down like 20 points (fail) dueling XD
and well……
although I don’t want any more points taken off of Ravenclaw,
cheating is still a disgrace.
I hate it that someone from my house is cheating. I hate even more that he is lying about it, in the face of such overwhelming evidence. I hate the thought that my house will lose all those points, but I hope Pottermore gets him and stops him. How sad to think that people lose so much persepective about a game and make it unpleasant for everyone. I’m very disappointed.
Ugh. This gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand, the cheating is obvious and wrong. On the other, I wouldn’t want anyone looking at my rankings and figuring out how my points changed over time.
PS I hardly log on…I just go for the bonus content.
The decision to start tracking it was difficult to say the least. Even as we (me and the other Bot Busters) began we were hesitant to do so. But in the end we decided that once someone appeared on the leader board their points were very public and it couldn’t be ruled as an invasion of privacy. I assure you we aren’t going around tracking every body. Lol.
LOL I think anyone with all that activity is probably craving attention and is asking to be tracked! If you don’t want to be tracked then fly under the radar!
Oh, I know you’re not. Thanks for replying to the comment. You make a valid point.
Cheaters on PM are the equivalent of trolls in forums and blog comments. It will take a while to find ways to deal with them (as was the case with trolls elsewhere) but eventually they will be brought down on PM as well or at least be more manageable. Thanks Elm for being on the forefront of that effort. The quite special structure of the PM site sure doesn’t make it easy but who knows what the future will bring once we reach book 7. The internet was quite a different place only three years ago, right?
Nicely done Elm – as always. After all the glitches in Pottermore it is nice to have a little glitch that can be fun!
I find it difficult to believe that any one person or even 2 could duel 44 hours out of 48. As avid a dueler as I used to be I couldn’t tolerate it for more than a few hours. The most I ever got was around 3000 in a day, and 6000 over a weekend. Even if I had the desire and time to spend I cannot imagine spending more than 10 hours a day dueling. I have nearly fallen asleep while dueling many times and had to call it quits, and that’s probably only after dueling for an hour or 2. I know there are lots of cheaters out there, some are smart and fly under the radar. I also know legitimate duelers who have been accused of cheating (and are earning considerably less points). I know kids are capable of spending hours on end engaged in gaming and/or social activity, I’ve been guilty of it myself, finding 3 or 4 hours have passed. But usually that is when a lot of thought and creating is involved, not just doing the same thing over and over again. If this Thorn person is legitimately dueling then I feel rather sorry for them, clearly they spend to much time with random meaningless monotony. If they think someone is hacking their account then they better change their password to prevent it from happening anymore. If they are sharing an account and or using a bot to duel it is completely shameful. Such cheating devalues all the honest people playing out there. When I was on the leaderboard before the last cup it was a big effort to stay there for 3 months and then I lost about 8 places on the board when a bunch of people came in earning 6000-12000 points a day – most of those I’m sure were cheating, but I hate to lay blame without much evidence. I would say there is some good evidence here that a bot or multiple people are using the account and either way that’s cheating and it is a disgrace.